|
Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 7, 2012 14:00:35 GMT
Let's face it. At Arsenal we have witnessed a steady departure of players who could make a difference to our club's fortunes over several years and while players have been sourced it is also the case that those new faces were not likely to step into the shoes of the ones they re place. Well at least not on a like for like basis and usually not immediately. While I greatly value the arrival and presence of Mikel Arteta and would indeed shout his name from the highest tower, he is no replacement for Cesc Fabregas whose departure we had all known of long before the arrival of Arteta was even considered. We never replaced Vieira properly nor Henry and the growing chorus of our beloved club becoming a selling club grows louder by the season. And speaking of seasons, well wasn't the last one hugely exciting, though for not quite the reasons we had envisioned. Yes we made it back into the CL for a record-breaking time. Yes we all rejoiced in a way one could say that supporters and players of a club that just escaped relegation would rejoice. The season couldn't have started in a worse way and January brought no joy either. There weren't even any wins!! Too much Christmas pudding perhaps. If only. Sadly, the reasons may be deeper such as poor tactics, a squad lacking in depth and over-reliance on our talisman striker and captain. Yes we were third but were we better off than in seasons past? Well if you consider that 19 points adrift of the runner-up place is good then, I suppose it was a better season considering our fightback but there are statistics elsewhere which point to a different picture, such as shipping in 49 goals. You cannot ship in 49 goals and still expect to be counting much at the end of the season except for your lucky stars I venture to suggest.
Back to our captain then. It is said we stood by him in seasons when he carried injuries, that his average number of games per season amounted to 34 as compared to Henry's 37. Well a difference of 3 doesn't seem very much to me and the same surely could be said in van Persie's favour that he stood by us when we were trophyless and leaking top players. In fact let us examine that and one need not go back too far for that. Our previous captain had wanted out though of course. The main reason would appear to be a return to his roots but it did, did it not, set off a chain reaction that when Manchester City came calling. Purely on the basis of on paper facts both Nasri and Clichy went to a club that won a trophy the season before and ended up with another, a bigger one at that and one could say they helped win in their maiden season with them. All Arsenal fans will lament at the empty space in the trophy cabinet ever since the move from Highbury. An absence of trophies, players leaving and those questioning if indeed there is as much urgency to capture trophies as there seems to be in merely guaranteeing a place in Europe. That it would appear has become the trophy. Only it doesn't feel or look like one. If you are in sport and respect yourself as being a major player in the sport either at club or player level, I put it to you that the measure of that stature is by winning or showing that you can win. For a sportsperson there surely is no greater incentive than to place one's hands on a trophy in front of cheering and adoring fans. Considering much was placed on the shoulders of RvP, is it not yet another example of over-reliance on our captain that once again we ask of him to stay when at best all we can offer him is that invisible trophy of fourth place or indeed, perhaps third if the wind should blow in our favour?
Thre are those who speak of a favour extended by the club to it's current captain in the time he had been injured. I think the favour has been returned. We retained him when he was injured and he then remained with us when we were trophyless. It seems reasonable to me that if we cannot give him a reasonable hope that in staying with us, there would be silverware on the horizon then in all good faith we should honour his decision and let him go with our blessings. Who knows if we may ever have need of his services in some way again and his most recent memory of us should tarnish any relationship and jeapordise any future association? It is time to give way to gentlemanly considerations. This is after all a sport and sport should be played by gentlemen. While there are times when one supposes that business considerations can deflect from the aims of being engaged in sport, one should remember that in business too, it is best to walk away with happy memories. Right now not much are being created in that direction.
|
|
|
Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 7, 2012 21:41:04 GMT
I think we move on as always... I personally applaud RvP for having the courage to speak out and give the fans an understanding of what is going behind the scenes. I suspect a lot of players and managers are given some kind of incentive to keep quiet about things went they leave clubs... I.e play nice and there will be something in it for you and we will make it easy for you...
We now need to invest in a replacement - neither Podolski or Giroud are replacements for RVP and I would like to see the club excite the fans and existing players with a marquee signing...
|
|
|
Post by ammaar on Jul 7, 2012 21:53:27 GMT
You know, I was thinking about the misconception of ''loyalty''. Technically, there is never really loyalty to any club. Judging by that logic, Henry should have stayed Monaco who actually helped him turn into a professional footballer. Or Bergkamp should have stayed at Ajax who played a fundamental part into making him the player he was. You get the drift. Who would sign anyone if there was this supposed ''loyalty'' in football? Should the fans of those players respective clubs begrudge their moves because they didn't stick with the original club?
The reality is, most players want to try new challenges and have different motives for leaving their clubs.
Players come, players go. That is the cycle of football.
Lambasting van Persie for leaving is stupid. He probably wants a new challenge where he can earn more money. Isn't that why the likes of Podolski and Giroud joined us?
I personally think Robin made his decision up a while ago. I don't think anything Wenger could have said would have convinced him to stay. Every time he was asked about the contract renewal, you could tell by his mannerisms and his body language he didn't really want to stay. And he always said ''we will see'', which, in a way, is a professional thing to do. It was non-committal and ambiguous, but again, it was obvious by the expressions he didn't intend to prolong his stay at Arsenal.
What is annoying though - is that we always wait until the last year before we negotiate contracts. That gives the players more power as they are in a position to hold us to ransom if they wish. Are you aware that Song and Theo are also in their final years, and Koscielny will be after next season?
The handling of the contract situations are a joke and it needs to be sorted out before we lose ALL our best players.
|
|
|
Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 7, 2012 22:33:27 GMT
Yes I was aware about both Song and Walcott.
I can't see Walcott staying at the club to be honest, but as I have said a few times, if we get £20m for him then I would be happy if we took it AND invested it.
I think Walcott is a good player, but expendable... He will never have control of the ball at pace.
As for Song, I just wish he would be more disciplined.
|
|
|
Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 7, 2012 22:38:22 GMT
I'm wondering why there seems to be no move towards bolstering our midfield and defence. We lost so much possession in midfield last year you would think Arsene had noticed... Man, the guy is stubborn.
As for RvP, I think the club should either put up or shut up. I lament the absence of sporting ambition or the manner by which it has had to give way to Mr Gazidis's business model.
|
|
|
Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 7, 2012 22:42:37 GMT
I'm wondering why there seems to be no move towards bolstering our midfield and defence. We lost so much possession in midfield last year you would think Arsene had noticed... Man, the guy is stubborn. As for RvP, I think the club should either put up or shut up. I lament the absence of sporting ambition or the manner by which it has had to give way to Mr Gazidis's business model. I think we will bring in another midfielder but not so sure about defence. I an still hopeful we will replace RVP if he goes... At the moment I just don't think we have a 'star' that will scare the opposition. Times really have changed for us. As for Gazidis he is a weasel. The day he came in was the day we started to go backwards.
|
|
|
Post by thehothead on Jul 8, 2012 8:33:08 GMT
Loyalty to a certain extent I can understand but I don't think RVP owes us anything. when he was fit to play he was a joy to behold - so when he was fit he DID at least give something back.
People are only saying RVP owes us something because he has been outstanding in recent seasons. Lets compare RVP to Diaby and Rosicky. If Diaby decided to leave, how many Arsenal fans would be crying he was not being loyal ? Very few if any. If Rosicky didn't sign a contract extension last season (or was it the season before ?) who would be complaining about that ?
Its sour grapes. RVP gave us all he had the last 2 seasons and kept us in the CL singlehandedly - when the team were shipping goals at an alarming rate. RVP is showing ambition - this ambition to me is the difference between being a winner and a loser. Only an idiot would stay with a sinking ship.
|
|
|
Post by pneawf on Jul 8, 2012 8:45:11 GMT
I think we needed to show real intent in oreder to keep him. Pod and Giroud are improvements on what we have but it shows little ambition. Had we bought Gomez or Muller then that would be intent, Pod, not so much. Same with Giroud, but I feel now he is the replacement for RvP which again shows the ambition of the club. We needed a big signing and we went for cheap, yet again. I think more than anything the lack of ambition in buying in midfield or to shore up the defence is probably more disconcerting to the likes of RvP. He did his job last season and was let down in other areas. We desperately need a class playmaker and a stopper. Our midfield is weak, physically and mentally and we need someone who can break up play without then giving the ball straight back. Song isn't the guy. Song is also ran, we need a Vieira or Gilberto. A winner!!
|
|
|
Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 8, 2012 8:51:24 GMT
I think we needed to show real intent in oreder to keep him. Pod and Giroud are improvements on what we have but it shows little ambition. Had we bought Gomez or Muller then that would be intent, Pod, not so much. Same with Giroud, but I feel now he is the replacement for RvP which again shows the ambition of the club. We needed a big signing and we went for cheap, yet again. I think more than anything the lack of ambition in buying in midfield or to shore up the defence is probably more disconcerting to the likes of RvP. He did his job last season and was let down in other areas. We desperately need a class playmaker and a stopper. Our midfield is weak, physically and mentally and we need someone who can break up play without then giving the ball straight back. Song isn't the guy. Song is also ran, we need a Vieira or Gilberto. A winner!! Couldn't agree more Mr P I just cannot understand the need to go down the bargain basement all the time. Yet we fork out 15m for a youngster, albeit one with a potentially great future.
|
|
|
Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 8, 2012 9:04:06 GMT
Welcome PNE, good to see you here...
I think the whole club needs a lift, the kind of lift we got when Dennis Bergkamp arrived. Now we are NOT going to find another Dennis, but a top top player, a marquee signing is what we need now. the club need to realise that it takes more than a statement on the website about being ambitious for the fans or players to actually believe it.
Actions speak louder than your very hollow words Mr Gazidis!
|
|
|
Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 8, 2012 15:11:43 GMT
I am CONVINCED that AW was pressed to take out insurance on RVP going. He was given the budget of £25m as a likely income from selling RVP. We have seen early signings to please the board. AW still holds out hope of keeping RVP - but I doubt he will succeed.
RVP is not really showing loyalty for what the Club has done for him. There were 2 or 3 seasons when I would have sold him- poor injury record and iffy performances. However - players are so self-centred. It is clear to all that the Club is in no-mans-land. RVP is being seriously tempted away - hard to blame him.
|
|
|
Post by thehothead on Jul 8, 2012 15:30:20 GMT
BaDM, don't you think the last 2 seasons - especially the last - where he pretty much got us CL football is repayment enough for his injury ravaged seasons ? His performances in the last 2 seasons have got us CL football. I imagine he heard so much tripe in that meeting that he thought "enough is enough - they won't buy quality and keep selling the quality they have - I'm off".
|
|
|
Post by pneawf on Jul 8, 2012 15:32:04 GMT
I am CONVINCED that AW was pressed to take out insurance on RVP going. He was given the budget of £25m as a likely income from selling RVP. We have seen early signings to please the board. AW still holds out hope of keeping RVP - but I doubt he will succeed. I agree. We have bought two strikers when we have a much greater need elsewhere, suggesting AW knew a while back RvP was not going to re-sign. I would posibly suggest that this was known around January when the club showed its total lack of ambition when it did not buy anyone when we desperately needed greater depth. In all honesty, however, I do not think that with our system we need RvP as much as he needs us. He is a very good player, but I think we could replace him a lot more easily than people think. I would argue that a creative middy with good vision is more important. Most strikers, and having seen Pod and Giroud regularly last season I include them, could score a lot playing for us if we can thread a few more balls through. It was where we were weakest last season. And.... If we can organise the defence better it will be like having an extra goal a game with the way we leaked goals at times.
|
|
|
Post by pneawf on Jul 8, 2012 15:33:53 GMT
BaDM, don't you think the last 2 seasons - especially the last - where he pretty much got us CL football is repayment enough for his injury ravaged seasons ? His performances in the last 2 seasons have got us CL football. I imagine he heard so much tripe in that meeting that he thought "enough is enough - they won't buy quality and keep selling the quality they have - I'm off". And who can really blame him? Everyone wants the best they can for themselves.........
|
|
|
Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 8, 2012 15:41:20 GMT
BaDM, don't you think the last 2 seasons - especially the last - where he pretty much got us CL football is repayment enough for his injury ravaged seasons ? His performances in the last 2 seasons have got us CL football. I imagine he heard so much tripe in that meeting that he thought "enough is enough - they won't buy quality and keep selling the quality they have - I'm off". RVP probably had a pre set limit on the amount of times he would tolerate the words "self sustaining model". After 1 minute his this hold had been reached and he left !
|
|