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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 7, 2012 14:44:22 GMT
There seems to be two schools of thought here.
There are those who say that Arsene has a say in just about every aspect of the club. That much has been discussed over the past year for instance about his role in setting players' wages makes one wonder how much of a key player Arsene is on the board. Then of course there is a belief that Arsene's hands are tied. His purse is restricted and he himself has said that one day he would reveal all. That in itself sounds not just like there is more to come but that here is a man who is dissatisfied with the way things are run at the club.
I recall that leading up to and in the early weeks of the previous season when Arsene was under pressure that Gazidis had been saying that Arsene was someone very special, that he came to the board asking to understand their sustainable model and for his part said he would keep the club in contention. That sounds to me like a perfect scenario of the manager working hand in hand with the board. And if not as the highest paid manager in the EPL, I think he who takes the money should also take the flak.
How much of a say in the club do you think Arsene has my friends?
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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 7, 2012 21:44:49 GMT
I am beginning to think that Wenger is playing ball and accepting what is happening, but the drivers of the decline all emanate from the board. Wenger himself said last summer that when he retires he could write a book about the circumstances of that last summer window. I am quite sure his hands are tied, but that does not exonerate him from some blame... He is in a position to completely blow the lid on what the board are doing - if they are, as I suspect, running Arsenal as a profit making business to drive higher share prices and therefore personal gain.
I am sure that in 2014 , when Wenger will almost certainly leave, a lot will come out that will just make our jaws drop.
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 8, 2012 10:32:36 GMT
I wonder if there may be a gagging arrangement in place. However I really do think some more discussion on the club's finances should be on air or in print. Care to write to The Times Jayram? Actually I think Ian Payne has a Sunday afternoon slot on R5 Live but I suppose they'll be too engrossed in tennis to worry about balance sheets and share prices!!!
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 8, 2012 13:57:04 GMT
I think in the past AW spelt out his views and proved his status with titles etc. Being a qualified Financial man he made his views clear to the Board and Directors. With the youth project not really coming through, and the Yank Owner demonstrating he will not invest in players or wages - the Club is wandering with lack of ambition being levelled at us. AW cannot really challenge the owner - because he has always spelt out where he stands. Now big spending owners have left us adrift - our best players cast their eyes to the others, and see our ex-players winning things and doubling their money. Are we coming to a crossroads? Either AW must find improvement in his last 2 years - or we find it harder to make top4. Sadly I have formed the view that AW has come to see his position into a corner - he cannot win in the boardroom, and is unlikely to win in the league or cups. I was a big supporter up to 3 years ago - but started to reject the pitch-side fuss, the bottle throwing, the pushing and shoving, the ' I didn't see it', the mental strength.... So 2 years ago I had formed the opinion he was past his sell-by-date. A VERY SAD conclusion to a wonderful servant of the club.
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Post by thehothead on Jul 8, 2012 15:38:33 GMT
I think Wenger likes to say he is in charge but the bottom line is that there are constraints at the club and the board want the club run a certain way. A different manager would have to operate under the same constraints. Until we change ownership we will continue with our decline
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 8, 2012 15:55:16 GMT
well - decline is a bit strong. What is happening is - other clubs are regularly buying top International players to lift their performances above ours. Added to the fact ( yes fact !) that our defence has been exposed so often in the last 3 or so years. If we had a traditional Arsenal defence we would be in contention with the top 4 or 5 - without a certain RVP saving our bacon.
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Post by pneawf on Jul 8, 2012 17:32:00 GMT
If Wenger is simply towing the party line then you have to feel for him and admire his loyalty. If he is the instigator or the current policy then I just want him out. I appreciate that his coaching papers over many of our cracks and allows us to over achieve, but the personnel he insists on keeping and buying are not of the quality the modern Arsenal need. In all honesty, how many of the current squad would you say were even able to sit on the bench prior to 2005?
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 8, 2012 17:48:15 GMT
I don't like the 'we will play beautiful and score more goals than you will' approach. a) often it has been tippy-tappy without penetration. b) any half-decent coach and team can see how to negate how we are setup. c) this style relies on a stellar finisher like RVP has been, to put it into the net. d) neglecting defence has let in alarming numbers of goals. e) this 'leaky' reputation gives teams hope, even when we are ahead.
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 8, 2012 17:57:16 GMT
If Wenger is simply towing the party line then you have to feel for him and admire his loyalty. If he is the instigator or the current policy then I just want him out. I appreciate that his coaching papers over many of our cracks and allows us to over achieve, but the personnel he insists on keeping and buying are not of the quality the modern Arsenal need. In all honesty, how many of the current squad would you say were even able to sit on the bench prior to 2005? Hard to say if he is entirely the instigator for this policy or if this is the policy he has adopted to keep us ' in contention ' as Mr Gazidis says following again his report to us last yr that Arsene went to the board asking to learn of their sustainable model. If indeed that was what happened then he is in collusion with the board and if so I too feel it is time for him to go. Who can find support for a manager who keeps the action and aim to 3rd or 4th place, instead of going out to win? I don't like the 'we will play beautiful and score more goals than you will' approach. a) often it has been tippy-tappy without penetration. b) any half-decent coach and team can see how to negate how we are setup. c) this style relies on a stellar finisher like RVP has been, to put it into the net. d) neglecting defence has let in alarming numbers of goals. e) this 'leaky' reputation gives teams hope, even when we are ahead. That too has been much discussed ever since I began to participate more on football forums. Over-predictability, the lack of a Plan B and a leaky and clueless defence. Arsene has to carry the can here I'm afraid.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Jul 9, 2012 14:13:55 GMT
I am beginning to think that Wenger is playing ball and accepting what is happening, but the drivers of the decline all emanate from the board. Wenger himself said last summer that when he retires he could write a book about the circumstances of that last summer window. I am quite sure his hands are tied, but that does not exonerate him from some blame... He is in a position to completely blow the lid on what the board are doing - if they are, as I suspect, running Arsenal as a profit making business to drive higher share prices and therefore personal gain. I am sure that in 2014 , when Wenger will almost certainly leave, a lot will come out that will just make our jaws drop. I agree with this completely, The board are the issue but Wenger has been weak and caved into them time and time again, his recent comments about RVP shows this as he seems to completely believe that RVP will stay and then the next day RVP plans that he will not extend his contract. The board are only thinking about making a profit for themselves which contradicts the way a club should be run. Robin van Bergkamp this is an excellent thread and I just wish we could create such a thread on the not606 without being ridiculed or called a wum, sorry to hear about your ban, I remember we were dicsussing usmanov in a thread and you were banned for your posts which was unfair
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 9, 2012 14:28:38 GMT
It will be a sad day when it is necessary to ban anybody on here-
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 9, 2012 16:13:54 GMT
..... I just wish we could create such a thread on the not606 without being ridiculed or called a wum, sorry to hear about your ban, I remember we were dicsussing usmanov in a thread and you were banned for your posts which was unfair Thank you for your kind words my friend. It seems I was banned because the Welsh sheep counter believed in some strange paranoid fashion that I was a WUM called Hizmo. As you'll see elsewhere I had it out with him on this and alerted Syd to it months ago. However it seems to have raised it's ugly head and presumably a stick with which to beat moi over the discussion about Mr U. LOL it is really like Russia and the old Iron Curtain over there. Welsh curtain perhaps? Then again I gather Syd was rude to Omogooner the other day. What a strange and uninviting place.
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Post by thehothead on Jul 9, 2012 16:45:28 GMT
As bad as Wenger seems to be I think any manager we get would have the same problems to deal with and I can't think of a manager who would do a better job although, maybe the new breed of managers coming through who are tactically astute (like Martinez) and promote good attacking football would at least address our long standing problem of weak defending
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 9, 2012 18:30:21 GMT
As bad as Wenger seems to be I think any manager we get would have the same problems to deal with and I can't think of a manager who would do a better job although, maybe the new breed of managers coming through who are tactically astute (like Martinez) and promote good attacking football would at least address our long standing problem of weak defending Well Mr Head, I dare say that any incoming manager will still have issues with the board releasing sufficient funds for reinvestment. However gaps in our style of play could be addressed by the right manager. I refer to the lack of a Plan B, absence of a defensive strategy, the seeming inability to motivate the team or make effective tactical call during the course of a match. No one gets everything right the whole time but there are gaps in our play which Arsene has not plugged and one wonders why this is save for his dogmatic style of which we are so well aware. As for the wider matter of his relationship with the board, I have a little problem appreciating that someone like Arsene who seems to want a say in every aspect of the team including the cumbersome salary structure which has been often discussed should be out in the cold on decisions at board level. The board could not I think have their way without the collaboration of Arsene Wenger. Perhaps they are really suited to each other. Still though I believe change at Arsenal is long overdue if we are to expect to compete successfully at the highest levels. If we simply wish to remain in contention to which I will add, and then fall away come February, then yes, stick with what we have but to me it says nothing but an absence of sporting ambition.
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Post by thehothead on Jul 9, 2012 20:05:43 GMT
True ... True ....
For sure there are various areas we can improve. Too many people think Wenger is the only manager who likes to play attractive attacking football, but Martinez, Lambert and Rodgers proved this is not the case.
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