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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 31, 2012 17:42:05 GMT
The endless indecision that accompanies our off season with supporters hanging on hopes often to see them dashed, with our manager saying at some point he will reinforce the squad and then almost immediately announces something quite contrary has driven me to wit's end. I need to have some hope that 2014 will not be that far away and think of who might fill the man's shoes. I would love Arsene Wenger to l go in the summer of 2014. It is doubtful if his departure will be much earlier than expected and I certainly hope he won't have a change of heart and decide to stay either. Long before all that though I dearly hope our egghead CEO will have left and Stan the Silent One sell out to Mr Usmanov, not because I believe him to be the most suitable candidate but because we need to change and he has seems to feel that way too. Who though will replace Arsene Wenger? No names my friends but lets' see where we think he may be from. I assume it's a he of course  |
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Post by thehothead on Aug 1, 2012 9:36:14 GMT
I think Wenger's eventual successor will come from abroad but I don't think it will be relative unknown.
He MUST play attractive football and not be scared to promote youth. The managers in England are not good enough, Rodgers could potentially be but I doubt the club would take a massive risk with him - same goes for Martinez.
So you have to look abroad, we won't get a mega star manager in so I think it would be someone with ta proven track record of over achievement !
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Post by ammaar on Aug 1, 2012 10:09:55 GMT
Didn't Wenger say he wanted Dragan Stojkovic to take over from where he left off?
Anyway, I would be a little apprehensive if that were the case, seeing as he's got no real pedigree in a proven league as a manager. Then again, Wenger was fairly unknown when he came to Arsenal and likewise with Jose at Porto.
Hmmm....it may be difficult to find one who may take us to the next level. Perhaps Guardiola if he's available?
If our board stay as tight-fisted as they are, knowing our luck, we'll end up appointing Ian Dowie or Alan Curbishley!
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 1, 2012 10:42:27 GMT
I don't want Guardiola as I don't think he is nearly as good as everyone thinks he is. He inherited a fantastic squad and the youth system was already in place so he hardly revolutionized Barca as people claim. Also he suffers from many of the same weaknesses that Wenger suffers from. He for example has no plan B and seems tactically inept at times. He has not beaten us at home and when we played them I would say that Wenger as a manager got the better of him. If we had RVP on the pitch when we played them away for example then I think we would have knocked them out of the champions league but luck was against us that night.
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Post by ammaar on Aug 1, 2012 11:04:07 GMT
Yes, he had to work with the best players in the world, but as City have shown, just because you have the players, doesn't mean you will win anything if you do not collaborate as a team. City have the best squad in the league by far IMO and yet they were 30 seconds away from winning the same as us. Pellegrini had unlimited funds at Real Madrid iin 08-09 and they finished a distant 2nd behind Barcelona and got battered in their backyard 6-2, if I can recall.
Tactics, coaching and man management is also very important when it comes to managing any team at any level. I don't think you're giving Guardiola enough credit. Yes, I agree he already had the nucleus of the Barcelona team, but he helped develop them and in his first season with them, he won five trophies. I can't remember the last Barcelona manager to achieve a feat as special as that. He's won 13 trophies in 4 years. That is impressive and it's more than what we've won since Wenger's been at the helm for the last 17 years. Pep's also helped nurture some very good players in the youth system, too.
And I don't agree about if RvP staying on the pitch, we definitely would have gone through - no-one can say for sure and also, we were played off the park. Every single area of the pitch, Barcelona's work ethic, stamina and quick links from defence to attack were too much for us to handle. We could barely string 3 passes together. In fact, we were lucky it was ONLY 3-1. They got in behind our defence so many times. When Almunia came on for Szczsney, he made about 5 one-on-one saves that kept us in the game.
I agree that he wasn't adaptable with his tactics, but I suppose if you have manager that is a bastion of such idealist and purist football and it led to so much success in a short period of time, you didn't need to.
I would actually argue that, Messi aside, a lot of the other Barcelona players were very wasteful in front of goal. Not just that - but what they've lacked is height in their team and a player who is good with his back to goal, who's dominant in the air and who can hold-up the ball well - Zlatan Ibrahimovic or a player of similar ilk would have been perfect for Barcelona against teams with watertight defences and a sturdy defensive shape.
Barcelona are always going to create chances because their team has too much quality, but they need a variance of players in their team, rather than just quick, pacy, technical players with incisive passing. We have a variety of players at Arsenal who have numerous strengths so Guardiola would have different types of players to work with, as well.
I'd like to see him at Arsenal to see what he can do.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 1, 2012 11:15:14 GMT
Barca are very different to City, for one many of those players grew up together in the same academy so they have played together for many years. Secondly most of the players in the Barca team also play in the Spanish national team together so they have that connection already and know what the players around them do. City have just bought talented players and aside from one or two, none have been developed from their academy so there is no real connection between the players like there is at Barca.
With our current squad and with the same finical restriction that Wenger has I don't think Guardiola would do very well at all, I certainly don't think he would get into the the top four. Look if we want a manger that promotes attacking football that is attractive to watch then we have the best one in the world in Wenger. But if we want someone who is tactically brilliant and will win you trophies on a regular basses then you have to look at Jose or Fergie as they are the best tacticians in world football.
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Post by ammaar on Aug 1, 2012 11:30:30 GMT
Altbouli, I'm not saying that his job was really hard and he worked miracles at Barcelona, but his achievements there simply cannot be dismissed. Maintaining the success they've had is not easy to do and whilst I have no doubts that they have some world class stars there, equally, they've always had a small squad and despite changing the personnel and losing some key players, they are still one of the best teams in world football. Winning 5 trophies in one season is an astonishing achievement for any team and even though they had a ''poor'' season last season, they still got to the Champions League semi finals, won the Copa del Rey and finished 2nd in La Liga, not too far off of Barcelona.
One thing I have also noticed is despite their small squad, they barely get any major long-term injuries to key players. That could be pivotal to us as it implies Guardiola introducing efficient and effective training methods that would improve the team whilst getting very little injuries. The only major injury they've had recently is David Villa. Who else? That's about it.
The only thing that worries me is his transfer activity - he's erratic when it comes to transfer (then again, so is Wenger) and I'm not particularly sure if I trust him.
But one thing we have to do is remain pragmatists - I can't see any other high quality manager out there that would come to us. There is Guus Hiddink who I very highly rate, but he would only be there short term.
For longevity, I would pick Guardiola as the best candidate out there.
We only want the best for AFC.
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Post by ammaar on Aug 1, 2012 11:32:22 GMT
Also - you say that Fergie was a master tactician, but do you think it came to him straight away? United almost got relegated the first season he was there and went 6 years without any silverware. He had one more season to prove himself and he did it.
Proving that you're a master tactician and that you're flexible requires patience and time with the manager. We won't know until we find out. And at least Pep has a good track record and pedigree.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 1, 2012 11:41:56 GMT
Altbouli, I'm not saying that his job was really hard and he worked miracles at Barcelona, but his achievements there simply cannot be dismissed. Maintaining the success they've had is not easy to do and whilst I have no doubts that they have some world class stars there, equally, they've always had a small squad and despite changing the personnel and losing some key players, they are still one of the best teams in world football. Winning 5 trophies in one season is an astonishing achievement for any team and even though they had a ''poor'' season last season, they still got to the Champions League semi finals, won the Copa del Rey and finished 2nd in La Liga, not too far off of Barcelona. One thing I have also noticed is despite their small squad, they barely get any major long-term injuries to key players. That could be pivotal to us as it implies Guardiola introducing efficient and effective training methods that would improve the team whilst getting very little injuries. The only major injury they've had recently is David Villa. Who else? That's about it. The only thing that worries me is his transfer activity - he's erratic when it comes to transfer (then again, so is Wenger) and I'm not particularly sure if I trust him. But one thing we have to do is remain pragmatists - I can't see any other high quality manager out there that would come to us. There is Guus Hiddink who I very highly rate, but he would only be there short term. For longevity, I would pick Guardiola as the best candidate out there. We only want the best for AFC. I believe you could attribute this more towards the league which is far less Physical to ours and the pace is much slower meaning less of a risk of players getting injuries. Guss Hiddink is another tactical manager and I also think he is very good but if it was short term success then I would defiantly go with Jose as the facts show that he always wins trophies by his second season at least. Whoever the replacement is for Wenger, I want them to play good football as that is what I love about this club and what I respect about Wenger despite his numerous flaws. In regards to a long term replacement then I honestly don't know possibly Martinez because of his philosophy but Manuel Pellegrini or joachim loew are also very good manager who play good football. Loew is still young and has shown that he is tactically good as well so I would love to have someone like him |
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Post by ammaar on Aug 1, 2012 12:24:39 GMT
That's a fair point Altibouli and you are correct. But one thing I will say is that Wenger tries to reduce as much contact as possible in training and only allows the players to play their football on a smooth, slick surface, which doesn't prepare us well enough for when we go to the Britannia or Stadium of Light or even Upton Park. Perhaps Guardiola could change the errors of that? I've seen the state of some of the Spanish teams pitches and I can't say I'm impressed. We always complain when we go to grounds like Stoke or Blackburn, but it's because we keep fussing about the surface because we're so used to cleanly cut, slick pitches.
Some teams will purposely leave the pitch with bits of turf and mud all over it as a tactical strategy to weaken fast-paced sides. It's what AC Milan did at the San Siro - they knew our main threat was pace from the channels and they nullified it by making the centre of the pitch tidyish, but leaving the wider bits of the pitch in a horrible condition. We need to get used to that and think of alternatives of what to do if that is the scenario again.
I wouldn't want Pellegrini at Arsenal as I really don't rate him. But Loew or even Jurgen Klopp would be excellent choices for us IMO.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 1, 2012 13:35:43 GMT
I lean toward Altbouli's opinion on Guardiola, everything was already in place for him at Barcelona all he had to do was fine tune it. How would he get on at Mallorca or Betis ?
And I also agree that he only has a plan A, his substitutions and decision making were bizarre also - like dropping Pique for that period when they lost ground against Real Madrid and lost to Chelsea and playing Mascherano as a CB - one of the smallest players on the pitch.!!
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