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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 9, 2012 8:48:03 GMT
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Post by ammaar on Jul 9, 2012 8:59:48 GMT
Moses troubled us at The Emirates last season. He managed to outpace and wriggle past Sagna on numerous occasions. He also put in some impressive performances against Chelsea and Newcastle.
He only got 6 goals and 6 assists, but I think he is a good player. He actually does create a lot of chances and is very quick, but Wigan's strikers can't shoot for toffee.
However, I think Walcott is a late developer and will show his best form in his mid-to-late 20's, so hopefully we do not get Moses, as he would be surplus to requirements. With that said, we need Theo to sign a damn contract first.
Wouldn't mind him as a squad player and would be an improvement on Gervinho, though.
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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 9, 2012 9:03:11 GMT
Moses troubled us at The Emirates last season. He managed to outpace and wriggle past Sagna on numerous occasions. He also put in some impressive performances against Chelsea and Newcastle. He only got 6 goals and 6 assists, but I think he is a good player. He actually does create a lot of chances and is very quick, but Wigan's strikers can't shoot for toffee. However, I think Walcott is a late developer and will show his best form in his mid-to-late 20's, so hopefully we do not get Moses, as he would be surplus to requirements. Moses played well in certain games last year, including against us... Maybe I just didn't see enough of him to draw a valid conclusion, but I just sense that replacing Walcott with Moses makes us weaker and will take some of the fear out of the opposition. I have said it before that Walcott draws two defenders and creates space for others even if he doesn't get in the game... I would be willing to take £20m for him, not £15m as is reported, and I would want a better replacement that would excite the fans.
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Post by ammaar on Jul 9, 2012 9:22:34 GMT
I agree with the sentiment though - and besides, there are better players out there than Victor Moses which we could get.
One thing which Theo has that not many other have is pace - not many in the world have the speed that he has that strikes fear into the opposition. People really do not value how desperately we would need his pace.
I think if there's one player we NEED to get to sign a new contract, it is Theo Walcott because I believe he will blossom in the next couple of years, but we need to convince him to stay.
If we let Theo go, it will come back to haunt us. He's one of those players where if we let him go, he would tear us apart if he played against us.
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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 9, 2012 9:28:33 GMT
I think Theo is one of those players that can tear ANY team apart on his day... His game must be more consistent though. One thing I find amazing is that he seems not have worked at all on his close ball control. The amount of times he leaves the ball behind when running at pace is annoying!
I do think he is also out of position. If anything he is better on the other flank, where he can cut in and use his right foot to curl a shot at goal... A la Henry. He has done it several times for us in his earlier years and for England under 21s from the other flank, but it's just another example of a player at Arsenal not playing in his best position. Another option would be up front, but only if we have a player like RVP playing off him.
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 9, 2012 10:10:41 GMT
Players out of position. Now where have I seen that before. Oh yes, the Arsenal lineup. I think it is possible Arsene may have hit his head during the celebrations of our Invincibles season. Ever since then it has largely been either downhill or coming to a halt before we get all the way up the hill. No, wait. There's 3rd place - now how could I have fogotten
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Post by ammaar on Jul 9, 2012 11:03:54 GMT
You know what RvB?
Ever since Mourinho got the better of Wenger, he hasn't been the same. It has damaged him I think.
Prior to Mourinho coming to Chelsea, we had just come off the back of the 'invincibles' season and even though we didn't fulfill our potential and win as many trophies as we should have, we were a force to be reckoned with.
Mourinho saw that most of our attacking play came through Dennis Bergkamp. No other team in the PL could keep Bergkamp quiet because he was too skillful and was a prodigious talent. Mourinho got in Makelele. Makele shielded the back four and marshaled Berkamp very well. Bergkamp hardly ever got a sniff whenever we played against Mourinho's Chelsea. Once he cut off our imperative creative spark, the supply to our attack was nullified and our wingers who have never been renowned for their crossing ability wouldn't have been able to do much, as Chelsea's shape defensively was always so solid and barely ever put a foot wrong.
They attacked us with power and speed, scored a few quick goals and then saw out the rest of the game.
We simply had no answer to it. Chelsea had figured us out and other teams started to adopt a similar strategy.
But Mourinho then decided to side with Alex Ferguson - they both 'teamed up' if you will, to get Wenger out the picture. You could tell by Mourinho being all chummy with Fergie, buying Champagne and Wine for him after matches, talking to him, their press match conferences etc.
After Wenger was out the picture, then Mourinho started focusing on eliminating SAF. And he did that.
But ever since Mourinho's tactical nous has proven too much for Wenger, Arsene hasn't been the same. He has been more stubborn in his beliefs, sticking to the ideology of playing purist football without having the right personnel or work-rate that comes with it and has unfortunately had too much power at Arsenal Football Club because he has been surrounded by too many 'Yes' men and won't allow ex-players/more experienced players to come in and coach/teach the youths or even our current squad. He hasn't been adaptable with his use of tactics or personnel and I just can't figure out why he is so obsessed with indoctrinating 'Barcelona-lite' football at Arsenal when it simply will not work, and moreover, why it's taken him 5 years to ACCEPT that this type of football will not work.
Wenger and even ex-players has implied that he doesn't analyse other teams; he just tells HIS team to do as he says - but how can he be that naive? Surely we would get found out that way?
Wenger has brought us some magnificent memories and although I do not believe he has gotten the best out of our most greatest assembled squads, I appreciate that he is our most successful manager in our history.
However, sadly, all things must come to an end and I feel Wenger's era must be over very shortly.
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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 9, 2012 11:15:31 GMT
It's interesting Ammaar because I do recall Wenger being very 'out in the cold' when mourinho came along. There's no doubt that the special one is a better tactican than Wenger and is also far too goog in press conferences, or generally with the media to go up against.
I am still of the view, however, that Wenger 'lost it' when he lost the kind to the squad BEFORE he ever arrived. The likes of Adams, keown, Parlour, Bergkamp, etc would never have let the team drop their heads. They had bottle. Wenger added a brilliant dimension to the team when he came, but has lost the spirit. One without the other will never win titles.
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 9, 2012 11:28:30 GMT
You know what RvB? Ever since Mourinho got the better of Wenger, he hasn't been the same. It has damaged him I think. Prior to Mourinho coming to Chelsea, we had just come off the back of the 'invincibles' season and even though we didn't fulfill our potential and win as many trophies as we should have, we were a force to be reckoned with. Mourinho saw that most of our attacking play came through Dennis Bergkamp. No other team in the PL could keep Bergkamp quiet because he was too skillful and was a prodigious talent. Mourinho got in Makelele. Makele shielded the back four and marshaled Berkamp very well. Bergkamp hardly ever got a sniff whenever we played against Mourinho's Chelsea. Once he cut off our imperative creative spark, the supply to our attack was nullified and our wingers who have never been renowned for their crossing ability wouldn't have been able to do much, as Chelsea's shape defensively was always so solid and barely ever put a foot wrong. They attacked us with power and speed, scored a few quick goals and then saw out the rest of the game. We simply had no answer to it. Chelsea had figured us out and other teams started to adopt a similar strategy. And you have a point there Ammaar since the inability to adapt to changing situations has cost us dearly over these past years. No plan B was a constant cry ringing in one's ears yet not in Arsene's it appears. I remember the apparent mutual respect SAF and the special one had for each other. Astonishing that Murinho outfoxed them all. Crafty one he was and I never liked him!!!!! Arsene became so inward-looking that he was convinced he could come back with his own style and to give him his dues he almost made it but the team that he has created over these last half decade were lacking the essential ingredient his other winning sides had. I refer to the fighting spirit. Sadly it has become all too evident and something other teams have worked out, which is that if you get together and have a go at Arsenal, you are likely to succeed. How else can one reason away giving up a 4 goal lead at Newcastle or when we led Spurs that weekday evening a couple of years ago only to draw 4-4 or the countless occasions when having been 2 goals ahead, we would lose our advantage and struggle to draw. You would have thought that these lessons would have been learned BUT this isn't the case. The lack of backbone is mystifying as it is infuriating. Sadly I too think every manager has his day but Arsene could have enjoyed an Indian summer in his tenure but as you say, he simply wanted his way and wouldn't listen to anyone, even now. Have a nice day pal
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Post by Robin van Bergkamp on Jul 9, 2012 11:35:37 GMT
..... I am still of the view, however, that Wenger 'lost it' when he lost the kind to the squad BEFORE he ever arrived. The likes of Adams, keown, Parlour, Bergkamp, etc would never have let the team drop their heads. They had bottle. Wenger added a brilliant dimension to the team when he came, but has lost the spirit. One without the other will never win titles. Couldn't agree more. Wenger's new style squad lacked this key ingredient. The last man AFAIK who instilled this into the team, he let go and that man is at City now. What a crazy way to hand over the key to trophies to your rivals. The mismanagement isn't just Arsene's. The situation created and fostered by the board suited the way Arsene worked. In a way they needed him as much as he needed them. Both understood what was needed given their respective models, Gazidis's sustainable one and Arsene's as it appears, inadequate youthful approach. Had we had an ownership that deemed sporting ambition to be invaluable, this may have not happened or been allowed to continue. As it is, circumstances worked out in their favour but not essentially to the club's or ours. Where will Arsenal go from here I wonder? Will we continue with the eye on third place? You know what they say. If you aim for 100% you don't get it. So what happens when you aim for less? This is such a fearful prospect..... Hahh and it just occurred to me that there is no one here to tell us that Arsene has kept us in contention..... Spin doctors beware - this is not your home.
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 9, 2012 12:05:43 GMT
Back to Moses - he might be worth having for say £10m - - but to swap with Walcott - I'd want £20m.
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Post by Jayramfootball on Jul 9, 2012 12:09:14 GMT
Back to Moses - he might be worth having for say £10m - - but to swap with Walcott - I'd want £20m. £20m for Walcott... Agree... Now if we got Moses PLUS an AM with that money then i would be happy!
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Post by ALTBOULI on Jul 9, 2012 13:41:01 GMT
Back to Moses - he might be worth having for say £10m - - but to swap with Walcott - I'd want £20m. £20m for Walcott... Agree... Now if we got Moses PLUS an AM with that money then i would be happy! This I personally feel that Moses may contribute to the team more than Walcott, you mentioned his stats (think you said 6 goals and 6 Assists) which is very good if you think about the team he is playing for, surely would better players around him in addition to better service would improve his stats greatly
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Jul 9, 2012 13:51:27 GMT
Thats the secret, isn't it? You have to think how an 'ordinary' player might perform in a role amongst good or better players. Sometimes 1 + 1 = 3
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Post by thehothead on Jul 9, 2012 17:48:34 GMT
Moses isn't of the quality that we need. I still think Walcott has a role to play for us but it certainly isn't out wide and the sooner Wenger admits this the better for the player, the team and the club.
Walcott on his day is fantastic, I don't think Moses on his day comes close to Walcott.
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