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Post by omogooner on Aug 1, 2012 19:55:11 GMT
Whilst I accept you have played football at a level considerably higher than myself, fortunately this does not make you any more better qualified than the average fan, some of whom may have never even kicked football in their life, this is part of what makes football the beautiful game. You hit the nail on the head when you say football is very subjective, hence there are only a few players out there (Messi, Ronaldo etc) that are flawless and thus have a general concensus that they are trully great. Song like the majority of players in his position over the years have their weaknesses........ On the subject of players potentially better than Song not fufilling their dreams, well what can I say, that is the way it goes..... It is all a matter of opinion. My 13yr old son has had trials for Southend and not made it, So I have seen at close quarters when this things do not go your way. I also wondered how players like B52 and a few players (e.g. those brothers who played for Arsenal, their name escapes me now) made it through the Arsenal academy. I also have friends who have kids playing at Hale End Academy, but at the end of the day, unless you are a Messi, there are several factors (not just footballing) which determine whether a player ultimately makes it through to fufill their potential.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 1, 2012 20:09:52 GMT
Exactly. Talent isn't always enough, sometimes its down to attitude, physique/stature, sometimes it is who you know. I've played with some amazing players. My next door neighbour was an Arsenal schoolboy - he played against Francesco Totti at Wembley for England Schoolboys. He was a class above - you could see his talent, from his instant first touch to his speed of thought. He was one of the most skilful players I have EVER seen play football in real life, a right winger. He wasn't skilful as in ball juggling skilful, he would do things on the ball .. Bergkamp-like, utterly amazing baller.
He didn't make it .. probably down to his "I'm the best thing since sliced bread" attitude, but he was amazing. He had trials at Lilleshal (England school of excellence for football) and didn't get in - they chose Steven Clemence (Ray Clemence's son) instead of him - and my mate was miles better.
At the time English football wasn't about skill though, it was about who could do the running and play percentage football. Such a shame, waste of God given talent. So when I look at Song I cannot get excited - especially when I honestly believe I've played with and against better footballers than him. Do you remember the likes of Carlton Palmer and Tony Daley ? How the hell were they pro ? No skill whatsoever.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 1, 2012 22:23:40 GMT
My dad played football for his national side therefore he's better than all of you so there Back on topic I dont think Song is bad by any means as a player, he does have talent but what lets him down for me is his determination to drift forward when he should just hold his position.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 1, 2012 22:40:32 GMT
Yeah I know I am slating him a bit and making him sound like a shit player, thats not the case at all. I'd give him a 6 out of 10. I just think, looking at players in their actual positions, Arsenal should be looking at players who are 7s minimum !
Shezza - 7 (room to improve) Sagna - 8 Kos - 8 Verm - 7 Gibbs - 7 (room to improve) Song - 6 Arteta - 7 Rosicky - 7 Walcott - 5 (winger), 7 (forward) Gervinho - 6 (room to improve) RVP - 9
I wouldn't be so damning if like you say he stayed in position because he would be more effective defensively. In fact, He'd be a 7 if he did that.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 1, 2012 23:34:26 GMT
It is true though about very talented players not making it while others did, I have friends who were very good players but didnt not make it for various reasons such as being too small or not physically strong etc. I remeber seeing a tv show a few years back held in Brazil were many talented players were being rejected for these same reasons. The coaches would say that the player was too small for his position which may be fair enough in some cases but when its a midfiled player akin to Paul Scholes stature and there getting turned down, then I think its extremely unfair.
Henry once talked about playing street football and he mentioned how many of the players were far better than him but they never made it.
omogooner I think the brothers you are refering to are the hoyts? and players such as these are terrible and I can testify to this having watched them up close in a few games.
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Post by Bergkamp a Dutch master on Aug 2, 2012 5:53:50 GMT
my two-pennyworth. I always thought Song was a headstrong nutter who was a red-card liability. Then he calmed down, probably more sure of his place, and began to be a strong stopper. In front of a shaky defence he can be immense, sadly he has been able to punt the ball to RVP and get assists. Now he thinks he can charge forward freely. If only he would sit back he would be a must-have in the team. It is this Jekyll & Hyde about his game that is the issue.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 2, 2012 9:49:41 GMT
It makes you wonder, what are Song's instructions, I mean, the manager must be giving him license to go forward otherwise he wouldn't be doing it - but all it is doing is leaving us light at the back - surely better to let Arteta bomb on and make Song hang back, Arteta has a better range of passing.
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Post by omogooner on Aug 2, 2012 15:47:30 GMT
omogooner I think the brothers you are refering to are the hoyts? and players such as these are terrible and I can testify to this having watched them up close in a few games. Yup correct, I was referring to the Justin and Gavin Hoyte, I am sure they are nice blokes, but just wondered how they made it through Arsenal academy. Carlton Palmer and Tony Daley, even though I must admit, I thought Daley was ok'ish. He played for England did he not?
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 2, 2012 15:52:40 GMT
Wenger said before that he does not see any of his players as strict in their position and encourages players to go forward and change positions so yes he has been given license to roam most of the time. This would be good in a more creative midfielder role but not as a DM because it means suicide for our defenders when we are caught on the brake.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 2, 2012 17:20:49 GMT
Tony Daley was the original speed merchant, he was ridiculously quick but never had control of the ball.
Have any of you seen those celebrity football matches on tv - I'm not sure it was the game that Boris Johnson played and literally rugby tackled a player waist high ? Darren Campbell, the GB sprinter was playing, he said he was an amateur baller when he was younger, I pissed myself when I saw him, reminded me of Tony Daley, all pace and nothing else, no control of the ball at all.
There was a lad called Greg Tullow I used to play ball with when I was younger - he as a RB, bloody good one, Arsenal schoolboy. He didn't make it but then I see the Hoytes make it ... makes no sense to me.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 2, 2012 18:29:51 GMT
I'm sure the Hoytes are very nice but in terms of football I dont know how they made it, I could say the same for players like Eastmond, even Chamakh is awful technically for a footballer and he cant control simple balls that a Sunday league player could master. Its not just Arsenal though players like Barton who are horrible people and are rubbish at football somehow managed to make it. I mean the guy gets an excess of 60k a week and he's pants. Drogba didn’t start playing football professionally until he was around 23 so there’s hope for me yet. If the guys above can play then I could at least get into one of the lower leagues. I just need to lose a few punds ;D
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Post by tufnelltoughie on Aug 3, 2012 9:14:14 GMT
I hadn't been taking the Song transfer rumours all that seriously but today i learn that a replacement has been lined up from Celtic and i am now wondering is there no player our esteemed Board will not sell.
I have no real axe to grind over Song, i think he is OK but it seems to me that if Barca come calling we will sell anyone.
History of the PL tells us that stability is the key to success but that no longer seems to hold any sway with Kroenke and Gazidis.
They are selling the club and the fans down the river in my opinion.
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Post by thehothead on Aug 3, 2012 9:48:23 GMT
This is it. Sell sell sell, but its about time the club stopped eroding the quality we have and replaced and improved it. If Song gets sold, for the right price, I wouldn't be bothered AS LONG AS we improve upon that position - not make it worse !
Its time to draw a line under the nonsense and say, from here on we will only improve the squad, no going backwards ..
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 3, 2012 9:48:55 GMT
The Celtic player is not even close to Song so it would be a major step down if he comes in as a replacement
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Post by thehothead on Aug 3, 2012 10:36:05 GMT
I have never seen the player play so I can't comment. But no backwards steps should be the motto now. Our debts are easily manageable and we are making big money. There are no excuses.
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